The “Death Panels” Controversy!

Crime, Education, Politics, Terrorism, Violence

Oregon Rep. Earl Blumenauer redacted a health-care provision that Sarah Pailin called “death panel” and “downright evil.” In a Facebook posting, she basically said that “ federal bureaucrats would play God” and decide on who is worthy of health care. The provision of the health care bill as written by Blumenauer would allow Medicare to pay doctors to counsel selected patients about end-of-life care…or care of life-end. Blumenauer condemned Pailin, joined by many other elected officials –both sides of the aisle, some Reps desperately trying to distance themselves from the failing presidential ticket– and media echo chambers. He also said that “It’s deliberate at this point. If she wasn’t deliberately lying at the beginning, she is deliberately allowing a terrible falsehood to be spread with her name.” Interestingly, Pailin harsh words came out Aug 7th and after 5 days of damage control and denial, Aug 13, the senators have finally excluded the provision and put an end to the angry debate because “it could be misinterpreted or implemented incorrectly” according to Senator Chuck Grassley who also stated that the provision had been dropped from consideration.

Question to you?

Was Pailin really wrong? If yes, why was the provision discarded after public scrutiny and why the talks about setting ethical, regulated and sensitive “end of life” counseling?

In an Obama future world that could have been, when you are considering putting a loved one in hospice care, would you want to be offered end-of-life solutions instead, presented with all the perks of getting rid of the old fart instead of dragging him into an expensive and wasteful program? You tell me!

Eric Chevreuil Eric Chevreuil

40 Comments

  1. George  •  Aug 27, 2009 @4:58 am

    Eric… I believe she was essentially correct, especially if you consider outcomes .

    First… The term “death panels” are not in any of the House or Senate bills. Now you are correct when you mentioned the controversial end of life language has been excluded from the Senate bill – but not from the House bill. I think that is an important little tidbit you left out to make it easier for mentally deficient liberals to try to focus on your point. :o

    Second… it is a challenge for brain dead liberals to employ any critical thinking skills (following liberal post will prove it) – liberals say the House bill only authorizes payments for doctors to counsel on end of life (actually there is more to it than that) – now the gov’t is footing the bill and pressuring medical providers to cut cost – now do the math, does the doctor listen to the patient who wants the expensive procedures to prolong life or listen to the pay source telling him to steer the patient to the cheaper end of life drug?

    Third… I wonder what Rep Blumenaur (DEMOCRAT – OR) has to say about his Oregon Government Health Plan that denied expensive cancer fighting drugs to cancer patient Barbara Wagner and instead sent her an unsigned form letter stating they denied the cancer fighting drug but would pay for the drugs for a physician-assisted death… now the panel that made that decision sounds eerily similar to a death panel to me
    http://abcnews.go.com/Health/story?id=5517492&page=1

    Fourth… House bill 3200 Pg 354 - Govt will restrict enrollment of special needs people. Does that mean the government will restrict enrollment to moronic and mentally deficient liberals? Is mental deficiency considered enough of a deficiency to be a medical problem thus covered by health care insurance?

    Fifth… I think House bill 3200 Pg 494 answers the question. The Govt plan will cover Mental Health Services & define, create, & rationing those services. So maybe mentally deficient liberals will still be able to get free government health insurance for free health care… and you and you wife can work harder to pay for them… :o

  2. Josephne Morley  •  Aug 27, 2009 @4:26 pm

    Both you and George are making assumptions that Obama will counsel the elderly about dying. That is a bold face lie; Obama never said that and it will nevr happen. How can you prove that this is what will happen? Don’t you two gentlemen feel that you are being irresponsible writing that sort of unsupported filth in order to scare the voters and the people into derailing the healthcare plan?

    Josephine Morely

  3. Jenny Ross  •  Aug 27, 2009 @4:31 pm

    Palin is correct and I agree with you two writers. Depending on whom you are listening to or reading, these panels can be deciphered as the death knell for elderly people in need of expensive treatments or young people with disabilities requiring long and extensive care and possible expensive prosthetic equipment, or just a friendly chat with your family doctor to decide what is best for you.

    Jenny Ross
    Muncie, Indianna

  4. Marsha Press  •  Aug 27, 2009 @4:34 pm

    Here is more Eric, as more and more parts of the Obama Mandatory Health Plan, often referred to as “reform” but more realistically becoming known as the destruction of the world’s greatest medical system, questions about certain parts that seem to say one thing and mean another keep cropping up. Excellent question you have there.

    Marsha Press

  5. Cameron Bailey  •  Aug 27, 2009 @4:40 pm

    You are misrepresenting Obama and the other democrats who support his health care reform. mObama said, and I quote, “The rumor that’s been circulating a lot lately is this idea that somehow the House of Representatives voted for “death panels” that will basically pull the plug on grandma … this arose out of a provision in one of the House bills that allowed Medicare to reimburse people for consultations about end-of-life care, setting up living wills, the availability of hospice, et cetera…”

    Can any of you tell me where in this statement Obama or anyone said that your “loved one” will be sentenced to death?

    Cameron Bailey
    Casper, Wy

  6. Tim Madinger  •  Aug 27, 2009 @4:46 pm

    I believe what Palin said is true. The “rumor” of the existence of “death panels” in Obama’s health care plan was circulated by Sarah Palin who is quoted as saying, “The America I know and love is not one in which my parents or my baby with Down Syndrome will have to stand in front of Obama’s ‘death panel’ so his bureaucrats can decide, based on a subjective judgment of their ‘level of productivity in society’ whether they are worthy of health care…. Such a system is downright evil.” I believe she is on target with this and these people must be stopped.

    Tim Madinger

  7. Hank Witherspoon  •  Aug 27, 2009 @4:49 pm

    Palin is correct in speaking out. She has reasons more so than most of us. Governor Palin, the mother of a child with a disability, could certainly be expected to be a lot more directly affected by the possibility of a mandatory decision-making government agency handing down a decision as to whether or not her child may not be worthy of being allowed a medical procedure that could save or prolong that child’s life. Any mother, or father or even relative or close friend for that matter, could be expected to have strong feelings against a non-medical person that was to sit in judgment of such a highly personal potential life or death determination of a child.

    Hank Witherspoon

  8. Serene Jason  •  Aug 27, 2009 @4:51 pm

    Eric, I think Palin’s comments should be looked at as more of a natural gut response of a mother to one of her children’s well-being. Obama’s reaction is a heartless and callous attitude not becoming to a person of his status. Of course Sarah Palin was justified in thinking the worst of such a proposition that could possibly become an actual law.

    Serene Jason
    Nova Scotia

  9. Carrie Isbel  •  Aug 27, 2009 @4:54 pm

    This is just one more piece of evidence that the great liberal Democrat experiment (aided and abetted by a handful of Repubs) to “fix” our efficient, excellent and smoothly working medical care system, is as broken down as all their other attempts to “fix” the banks, and the auto industry.

    It’s been said many times, but it bears repeating on occasion for reminding us that Ronald Reagan told us to beware of people who say, “I’m from the government, and I’m here to help.”

    Obama and company are from the government.

    Carrie Isbel
    Arkansas

  10. Floyd Appleton  •  Aug 27, 2009 @4:55 pm

    As far as I am concerned,the Feds can keep their crooked noses out of our lives. If they ran this scheme like the USPS [broken] what a mess we would have. A while back A doctor gave me a device that was to help keep my tendons in the back of my leg stretched at night,but medicare it looks would not cover it. To much to spend on an old fart,it looks. What with the liar in chief has to say,give me a break!

    Floyd

  11. Betty Hamilton  •  Aug 27, 2009 @4:58 pm

    Former Governor Sarah Palin recently posted the note on her official Facebook page that falsely claimed that, under health insurance reform, a “death panel” of bureaucrats would “decide, based on a subjective judgment of their ‘level of productivity in society,’ whether they are worthy of health care.” The truth is that no such panel exists, or has ever been proposed in any version of the health care bills in Congress, that would judge a person’s “level of productivity in society” or determine whether they are “worthy” of health care…and you do know that it is false, Eric. Shame on you.

    Betty Hamilton

  12. David Russell  •  Aug 27, 2009 @5:01 pm

    Eric, Republican Johnny Isakson, said it was “nuts” to claim the bill encourages euthanasia. Even Palin’s home-state Republican Senator Lisa Murkowski, after hearing Palin’s comments, said, “It does us no good to incite fear in people by saying that there’s these end-of-life provisions, these death panels… Quite honestly, I’m so offended at that terminology because it absolutely isn’t (in the bill). There is no reason for you to gin up fear in the American public by saying things that are not included in the bill. As someone already referred to you; you are being irresponsible.

    David Russell

  13. Jerry Saxz  •  Aug 27, 2009 @5:08 pm

    Eric and Georgy, there is no “panel” in any version of the health care bills in Congress that judges a person’s ‘level of productivity in society’ to determine whether they are ‘worthy’ of health care. If you know wher to find it, would you let me know? Palin’s claim sounds a little like another statement making the rounds, which says that health care reform would mandate counseling for seniors on how to end their lives sooner. Liar Liar Pants on Fire! The truth is that the health bill allows Medicare, for the first time, to pay for doctors’ appointments for patients to discuss living wills and other end-of-life issues with their physicians. These types of appointments are completely optional, and AARP supports the measure. But that’s not what Palin said. She said that the Democratic plan will ration care and “my parents or my baby with Down Syndrome will have to stand in front of Obama’s ‘death panel’ so his bureaucrats can decide, based on a subjective judgment of their ‘level of productivity in society,’ whether they are worthy of health care.” Palin’s statement sounds more like the science fiction movie Georgy wrote about (Soylent Green, anyone?) than part of an actual bill before Congress. Yes, I know…I am dumb and stupid. So, what’s new?

    Jerry Saxz
    Ohio

  14. Nonchalant  •  Aug 27, 2009 @5:14 pm

    The stubborn yet false rumor that President Obama’s health care proposals would create government-sponsored “death panels” to decide which patients are worthy of living seem to arise from nowhere in recent weeks. But no rational or intelligent person will ever believe that this will ever happen in America. So take your false rumongering elsewhere. Palin is wrong.

    Nonchalant
    In Virginia

  15. Paula Mays  •  Aug 27, 2009 @5:19 pm

    Palin and the other critics are wrong.

    Nothing in the legislation would carry out such a bleak vision. The provision that has caused the uproar would instead authorize Medicare to pay doctors for counseling patients about end-of-life care, if the patient wishes. Here is a question and answer on the controversy instead of your leading question:

    Q: Does the health care legislation bill promote “mercy killing,” or euthanasia?

    A: No.

    Case closed!!!

    Paula Mays
    San Francisco

  16. Michael Armstrong, Sr  •  Aug 27, 2009 @5:21 pm

    Eric, the American Medical Association, the National Hospice and Palliative Care Organization and Consumers Union are among the groups supporting the provision. AARP, the seniors’ lobby, is taking out print advertisements this week that label as false the claim that the legislation will empower the government to take over life-and-death decisions from individuals. How can all these people be wrong and ONLY you and George are correct?

    Michael Armstrong

  17. Katherine Hall  •  Aug 27, 2009 @5:26 pm

    I’m not aware of any ‘death panels’ in the bill, Eric. I’m not aware of anything that says you will be hauled before a government bureaucrat. But I am concerned; it doesn’t take a lot to push a vulnerable person — perhaps unwittingly — to give up their right to life-sustaining treatment. And I do not trust any government, liberal or conservative.

    Katherine Hall

  18. eric  •  Aug 27, 2009 @11:10 pm

    Josephine: the filth is not mine….sorry…
    Aug 13, the senators have finally excluded the provision and put an end to the angry debate because “it could be misinterpreted or implemented incorrectly” according to Senator Chuck Grassley

    Would you have surgery knowing your surgeon might “implement incorrectly” the surgery protocols?

    Same here!

  19. eric  •  Aug 27, 2009 @11:11 pm

    Cameron…if it is true, why would they remove it?

    Aug 13, the senators have finally excluded the provision and put an end to the angry debate because “it could be misinterpreted or implemented incorrectly” according to Senator Chuck Grassley

  20. eric  •  Aug 27, 2009 @11:15 pm

    Betty…it was called “death panels” like it could have been called “euthanasia committees”.

    Doctors would be paid by the program for “end of life councelling”…whatever it means…and because it could mean anything good, it could also mean and lead to anything bad, like unplugging grandma to save inheritance and healthcare money…

    Again: Aug 13, the senators have finally excluded the provision and put an end to the angry debate because “it could be misinterpreted or implemented incorrectly” according to Senator Chuck Grassley

    The key is “implemented incorrectly”

  21. eric  •  Aug 27, 2009 @11:16 pm

    David…

    Terminology again, see above…in the meantime, see above!

    Aug 13, the senators have finally excluded the provision and put an end to the angry debate because “it could be misinterpreted or implemented incorrectly” according to Senator Chuck Grassley

  22. eric  •  Aug 27, 2009 @11:17 pm

    Jerry…sorry, I don’t even bother to read your posts anymore…but I am glad you srtill find me interesting! lol
    Keep on reading mine and…whatever!

  23. eric  •  Aug 27, 2009 @11:18 pm

    Nonchalant: really?

    And you would take a chance that this provision would be “incorrectly implemented” on you?

  24. eric  •  Aug 27, 2009 @11:20 pm

    Paula:

    Does the health care legislation bill promote “mercy killing,” or euthanasia?

    It actually stays vague and talk about a panel of paid doctor and “end of life” councelling.

    Does it say what sort of “ernd of life councelling” it is?

    Nope…case open!

    I mean closed now…

    Aug 13, the senators have finally excluded the provision and put an end to the angry debate because “it could be misinterpreted or implemented incorrectly” according to Senator Chuck Grassley

  25. eric  •  Aug 27, 2009 @11:21 pm

    Michael…

    “label as false the claim that the legislation will empower the government to take over life-and-death decisions”

    We all agree and it is not the point…we are talking about doctors the plan would pay to help you out with “end of life” decision…whatever it is…not Obama unplugging grandma!

  26. eric  •  Aug 27, 2009 @11:25 pm

    Katherine….

    See above about panels, not governement agencies…

    Anyways “it doesn’t take a lot to push a vulnerable person — perhaps unwittingly — to give up their right to life-sustaining treatment.”

    So very right…if told that instead in spending their savings in healthcare my parents should leave the $$$ for their grandkids and chose to let nature do its job or get euthanazed, they might just go ahead and do that…
    If a son or duaughter presented with the same scenario -$$$ is mostly yours- or squandered away for the next ten years of wasted care for your dementia stricken alzeihmer gaga father….welll….who knows?

  27. George  •  Aug 28, 2009 @7:18 am

    Eric… it was refreshing to see that at least half of the people posting demonstrated the ability to comprehend English… the liberal half demonstrated they lack critical thinking skills and probably struggle with that whole breathing thing… :o But on a positive note jerry the Dunce recognized he is less than a village idiot.

    And these liberal intellectual light weights have demonstrated they either did not read what we wrote or lack the mental capacity to understand simple Enlgish… No where did we say the language “death panel” is in the bill… but the language in the bill creates the environment for a panel of bureaucrats to make life & death decisions – like in the Oregon government health care case of Barbara Wagner…

    Josephine… read the bill – I noticed you avoided Barbar’s case, what do you think about her case - obama is lying profusely

    Cameron – read the bill – then re-read our comments and then try and tell me that we are misrepresenting the bill

    Betty… she was making an analogy… is that so difficult for you to understand? Read the bill before you make false assumptions

    David… ignorant people are easily offended. Perhaps you should arm yourself with facts before you enter the arena of ideas. It is obvious you have not read the bill. For one so ignorant of facts to call an informed person irresponsible is in of itself irresponsible… and kind of moronic…

    Nonchalant… it is obvious you are ignorant on the issue as well… how would you know what a rational or intelligent person would believe??? Read the bill

    Paula… once again you provided empirical evidence that San Francisco liberals are dumber that stumps… after all you gave us the Botox Queen Pelosi and Brain Dead Boxer… I would tell you to read the bill but that would be a waste of time… it consists of big words

    Michael… I could provide you a longer list of those who strongly oppose the bill – plus the 70% of Americans… so I guess there are more than just me and Eric…

  28. George  •  Aug 28, 2009 @7:25 am

    Katherine… the term “death panel” does not exist in the bill. But like we said the bill creates a bureaucracy that would determine the care you receive and would make life and death decisions… some might consider that a death panel… I would recommend you read the bill. While it is 1000 pages there are only a few hundred words per page and really does not take that long to scan it.

    And you demonstrate some wisdom in not trusting any government – liberal or conservative… trust and believe in yourself and your abilities – you will never go wrong

  29. Katherine Hall  •  Aug 29, 2009 @4:45 pm

    George/Eric and a few others, Sarah Palin will exploit her own family for the sake of publicity where “special needs” children and senior citizens will live or die. This will lower medical bills for surviving Americans. And you guys are happy?

    Katherine Hall

  30. Cameron Bailey  •  Aug 29, 2009 @4:47 pm

    Eric and George, regarding your responses, it’s exactly this kind of political rhetoric that is NOT needed when it comes to the healthcare debate. “Death Panel”? Really? It’s a level of intellectual dishonesty that is frankly disgusting when healthcare costs in America are this high and so many Americans are uninsured or grossly under-insured. This is problem that needs to be solved, not be used to demonize.

    Cameron Bailey

  31. Nonchalant  •  Aug 29, 2009 @4:54 pm

    Palin is … without a doubt … one of the dumbest dumbasses in the history of American Politics. Even her own party is avoiding her’ except you George.

    Nonchalant

  32. David Russell  •  Aug 29, 2009 @5:04 pm

    See? This is what I’m talking about … Come on, media, grow some stones and call a spade a spade! This should not be reported without comment, but should instead, actually report that “of course, there is no such provision in the health care bill for any such ‘death panel’ .” (And under their breath they could add “idiot” — but that’s probably too much to ask, isn’t it Eric…George…and the rest of you conservatives…

    David Russell

  33. Jenny  •  Aug 29, 2009 @5:20 pm

    Guys, you are playing “fast and loose with the truth”. Let’s jump on the paranoia bandwagon, but let’s jump on the other side of the cart. There are many people out there spreading misinformation about provisions in much of the proposed health care legislation, but really, no one’s doing it better than Sarah Palin. Is she the purveyor of truth for the repubs?

    Jenny
    San Francisco

  34. Jerry Saxz  •  Aug 29, 2009 @5:21 pm

    You know what’s evil, former Gov. Palin? You. And your horseshit. And using your son Trig as a pawn in the health care debate. This is just a guess, but we bet when you found out Trig had Down Syndrome, you were overjoyed because you knew you had instant political capital.

    Jerry Saxz
    Ohio

  35. Jerry Saxz  •  Aug 29, 2009 @5:22 pm

    Ya Ya Ya, Eric. Perhaps you and Georgy should read what I have to say; it just might elucidate you some more. Somehow, you all have forgotten that I am here to help.

    Jerry Saxz
    Ohio

  36. SuzyQ  •  Aug 29, 2009 @5:26 pm

    Wow….you folks really dont see it? Maybe I’m untrusting but when the gov runs some type of program it never turns out the way they promise. Why not fix the crappy medicaid program….and please dont defend it I have seen first hand the care our gov gives to people who can not afford insurance. Some folks are dying due to no preventative care however, if you are a single mom with no job and your boobs are so big they cause some discomfort then by all means take my tax money to have them made smaller and perky! This type of crap happens every day and you want to defend a public option are you nuts?

    SuzyQ

  37. Chase Pemberton  •  Aug 29, 2009 @5:27 pm

    Just so we’re clear, a public option is NOT government-run health care. It’s an OPTION available in place of private insurance. (Hence the word “option).

    Chase Pemberton.

  38. eric  •  Sep 1, 2009 @10:34 pm

    Debate? What debate? IIt is a monologue by Obama and “AxelRove’ where the pharmaceutical industry groups and doctors lobbying against are depicted as evil “politic as usual” special interest groups out to prevent you from having decent healthcare and the pharmaceutical industry groups and doctors lobbying for as proof that doctors and medical industry endorse a good plan. BS! Where is the money and follow it. None, pro or against have your health in mind!
    Also, if it is so important, why rush it?
    If you have a minimum of intellectual honesty, you know you haven’t even read the plan and are emotional about it, real puppets of your masters. Whio has his hand deep up your…and make you move? lol
    I don’t believe one can come up with any good healthcare plan without spending time studying what works and not in other countries that have a single payer universal system? I don’t believe in mixing private and public. I don’t believe in reform without capping prices. I don’t believe in reform without controlling/investigating/punishing all abuses by the service providers and by the patients. I don’t belive in OBObama and our Congress enough to trust them with more money. Lobbyist have never been so numerous or active. Politicians have never handled so much money. Axelrove friends are earning millions of taxpayer’s money promoting it…BS…crooks are running amok and have tripled our deficit in 250 days! Way to go…just add more!

  39. eric  •  Sep 1, 2009 @10:36 pm

    Despite everything the OBObam-media says, groups supporting Obama’s health care plan have actually outspent 2 to 1 the opponents. Little is known of these big supporters because the Obama media keeps on demonizing the opposition. According to a report by a Mc Clatchy journalist, proponents are planning to spend another $150 millions before Congress goes back to work (Oxymoron?). Why do you think drug makers, physicians and other association want to support the plan? Do you think they have your best interest in mind? Are they any good drug manufacturers or doctors around here, vs. the bad at the origin of the health care crisis (drug monopolies, unnecessary interventions, waste and fraud…)? And why is the debate now shifting from Helthcre reform to healthcare insurance reform?

  40. eric  •  Sep 1, 2009 @10:40 pm

    And what about another OBObam’s campaign lie? The debate will be on C-Span, in the open, out there for everybody to pipe in. Journalist cannot even access the list of the healthcare lobbyist that have visited the White House in the past months! BLAH, BLAH, BLAH!

    And to top it up, OBObam asking Daschle what to do…should have asked him how to cheat taxes and stop paying all this money to China!

    By the crooks and for the crooks…

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